Episode 15: Nikki Ricks
SOCIOLOGY - GFC - URBAN PLANNING - ARCHITECTURE - ENTREPRENEUR - START UP CONSULTANT - FREELANCER - TECH BOOTCAMP - SOFTWARE DEVELOPER
Nikki graduated with a degree straight into the Global Financial Crisis and like everyone struggling to get a job - went back to college!
With Urban Planning under the belt she was working in architecture but found they weren't as open to her new ideas and entrepreneurial side.
She went on to become a startup consultant, helping launch startups and eventually saw the gap in technical understanding within investors.
Acknowledging the gap, she got herself involved in a tech bootcamp and ended up falling in love with software development.
This short blurb really doesn’t do it her journey justice - listen/watch/read now!
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Below is the episode transcript. This is automated through Azure Cognitive Speech Services. There is more training and customisation work coming for improved accuracy.
In the meantime please bare with any missing words/grammar/typos - the AI is learning!
Transcript
Akanksha
Welcome back everyone to another. Episode of pattern. Covered it's a podcast where we talked to people with untraditional backgrounds and. Technology. And how exactly they got to where they did? And. My name is akansha. I'm your host. And. I mean. It's an interesting. Thing I'm like I'm. Assuming most people who kind of come in this and know that it's me talking 'cause it usually is, but look, we kick off there today, I guess.
Nikki
And.
Akanksha
I've got a great. Guest. With me say. Who's Nikki? Rakes and I'll let her do her own introductions. As usual for the podcast. Yeah hi everybody, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, my name is Nikki. Riggs I am currently. A software engineer at a company called Envato Z or Melbourne based. They refer to themselves as a startup, but they're actually celebrating their 15 year birthday is today, so you know, not really a. Startup in them. Uh, we had been working there for about a year, but I'm a career changer. So I yeah, went into software engineering. The two years ago. Into the boot camp and yeah, and then you and I met didn't like at the picnic, yeah? Contemplating whether I should or shouldn't talk about how we met like No 100. Percent sure because it was just. So funny how this cutter came for. And. If people listen to this in like years to come, we're currently in a pandemic. Things are really hard to get ahold of in Australia for some reason. The Mickey Laker he treated about the fact that she like went through the back seat, so I was just like how. Where did you do? It tell me the details we got. Chatting. Yeah, and that's literally that was done and we kind of just chatting about vaccines and this time there might. Be way Nikki. You're in great person to have on please help. Yeah, so happy to be here so. Look let's dive right. Back in and. Talk to me. About kind of what was happening around high school college, like what were the decisions? What was the top process? Like where where we ask? Me. High. School. So I still call it yes, so I in high school did a program called Running Start Washington state. It's not my Americans grew up in Washington state in a very rural community like my town was like 10,000 people very small. Neither of my parents graduated college, so they like. Wanted. Me to go to. College, but you know, they just didn't really have any idea how to even like apply, you know. So I didn't have a lot of assistance or support there, and I also came from like a very conservative religious background, and so, like a woman having a career wasn't really that prioritized or even really talked about, UM, so yeah, in high school aged a program called Running Start where I had the ability to go to a Community College from a junior and senior. Year of high. School. Which was. Like really fantastic and saved a lot of money 'cause money in our collagen. America. Is. Insanely expensive and people you know. Come out with like. $200,000 is Dad. Would like an arts degree and then like make $30,000 a year so it was great to like be able to get you know those those two years under my belt which is really good. And then yeah I went to university I. Just. Studied something like communications and sociology. You know? Something that's like. Not a hard technical skills. That you can like translate. Really easily. Yeah, and then yeah, I like. We just kind of did a mission for the church that I was affiliated with that big time. And. Then when I came home. It was the protection, so it was 2000. 8. When I was like trying to get a job and like going back and it's like not not gonna happen right? Like my. Yeah, it was such a depressing. Time like I I know that I actually didn't feel it as much as America did, right? 'cause like Australia. Didn't have the light housing crisis that like America did, and then yes, but like I remember going to a bar and the people on the right side of me and the people on the left side of me were both talking to their friends about getting laid off and how there's tons of layouts at work. Like it was just in. The air you know how like everyone is talking about vaccines and COVID right now it should. In that in this. Psyche, it's like that's. Definitely at the time it's like. Really, really hard so. I. Remember it was like sorry, it's just. Yeah. Interesting. Because I would have been the 2009. I was 18 year. Six I remember. And it was that. Stage of like I was forced into watching the news every night at 6:00 PM. Moms like sit down and watch the. News yeah, good for you, you'll learn. Something. I still remember every single night. The only thing they talk about for 20 minutes out of the 30 minute like slot would be recession and I never understood that word for years. Then it's like we like second. Year of College I well. I understood what it. Was by then, but I took second. Year of college. Should be like. Oh this is what went wrong. Yeah, Oh my. God now I get. It yeah, but it's it really. Was just like it doesn't matter who. You were at that stage. You knew it like you knew that army knew what was happening. I didn't get what was happening, but it's. Everywhere. It's over, yeah, you are so mature. I am like. Shot so you were in your six in two. 1000 8 and my mind is blown right now. I am like. Really thought you were sober, jolt, like you are very mature with how you'd like. Yourself, yeah, it's like, I mean I get massive compliment. UM, so yeah, like I think. Especially at that age like. Yeah, you're not gonna understand what's going on, but it was. It was a global financial crisis, right? So? It was a terrible. Time to try to print shop. Everyone was getting laid off so you know what do we do when we can't find a. Job we go to. School, right? Like that's that's what you do. You just like get more schooling under your belt. So I when I was living in Chicago at the time I went to University of Illinois at Chicago and got in urban planning degree. Which I loved, but. You know, I went for two years thinking surely. At the end of. This year there is husband's. Gonna be like figured. Out. Like surely I'm gonna get a job that'll be great. But what ended? Up happening was there. It wasn't great. It was still in recovery mode. And. Like papers, they're still. Struggling so I do like a ton of like unpaid internships. Got really burned out doing that and then finally kind of landed. Might see in architecture from doing accessibility work. Which. Was. One of those. Things that I didn't like I like. Stumbled. Into like disability advocacy. And. One of those. Things where I'm like really glad that I have had that experience even on a technical level where I understand. Things. That I like, yeah? Value more than I did at the time. So yeah, I worked at that architecture firm for four years. They were really. Good to. Me they were small but they just. Like we're a little bit old. School like Architecture in general is pretty.
Nikki
Old school.
Akanksha
And don't get paid well, you know a lot of places will do stuff for free just to be able to like get it in their portfolio and so it's like really hard to compete. Yeah, it's. Oh wow.
Nikki
Would never I I think.
Akanksha
Actually the friend. Who did her architectural? Degree and this is kind of weird. Like that age thing goes back a little. Bit so she did like two years of the degree. Didn't like realize she wasn't a big. Fan dropped out and came back and did pressure into my. Degree were like great friends Max. And put remember. It was like a year. Into college and we both realized that, like so in Ireland, it's year nine exam like. State level exams. Over. 12 exams yeah? She was doing her year 12. Exams when I did my year 9.
Nikki
Exams.
Akanksha
At the same time, are both. Just like Oh my God. What, no, but she talked about architectural and I think. That was a part of it where no one. Really talks about that struggle in architectural line. It sounds cool. It's such a great job, but like. I don't think I've. Ever actually heard what they do like? Other than drawing up. Building like yeah, that's. Everyone needs. One right, but no. Yeah, yeah, it's a really undervalued. Industry. And yeah, they like struggle like if. You're at the top of your game. Like if you're a partner at your firm, you might be getting like 100 and 10120 a year. You know, like it's not.
Nikki
I mean, there's like any.
Akanksha
Industry, like if there's a painter you know. I think there's. Some. Painters somewhere and I start getting millions. Of dollars, but that's like few and far between, right? And the same is with architects like. There are some architects that are wildly successful. But it's. Not. Like masses of people that are doing well in the industry so. Yeah, I was just at that firm. And I think. I didn't know the term at the time, but I know it now. It's called intrapreneurs, so there's entrepreneurs right where you're like interested and like. I'm trying out an idea of putting it onto the market, and I was an entrepreneur and the sense that like I had a lot of ideas for the company and I was like curious, like tinker around and try things out in the company like could not be fast. You know, they're just like Nikki like though thank you like I had like. I've listened to this great. Like Harvard Business Review podcasts. I think we could start doing this with our clients. I think would really resonate with them. I think would help. US blah blah blah project and. They're just. Like you know. Like you know, I know that. You are like 25 years old. We've been in this industry. For you know 40 years we don't need your Harvard Business Review Podcast ideas. Thank you very much so. Yeah, very like millennial. Right, so like come. In and think that you have value in an. Industry where someone's like it has like years and years and years with expertise. And you're like.
Nikki
Listen to me.
Akanksha
But I guess I. Just like I still just kind of needed to be at a place. That
Nikki
may.
Akanksha
Be. Sure. Dismiss my idea, but this makes me feel. Like you're interested, just like a little bit, but they're just important, right? So yeah. It's like I mean like. I said this OK I. Appreciate. That but. This is why this doesn't work like that works so much, doesn't go away. Right, it's like. I'm think I'm listening to you. But let me. Explain to. You why what you're saying? Is problematic like. Give me a. Little bit of critical. Thinking I wasn't supposed to just like dismissiveness. Yeah, so yeah it was actually. While I was working. There. I was I had I had a baby and I had thought about this like pain point that I was having it like working with a baby who could. Tommy. Wanted to be nursed and would not. Take a bottle. And then having to go to. The office and blah blah blah. So I was thinking coworking at the time was just up in new like people didn't know the word coworking. Like they know it today. Like there wasn't we work. At that.
Nikki
Point
Akanksha
and. So I thought I would be incredible if there was a Co working with childcare. Space. And like men melding the two right so you could go drop your kid. Off get like a days of work. And. Go like in my case, nurse my baby when I needed more sleep baby go home so I started to work with a woman I started to work with different spaces, one working with the coworking space and a woman owned coworking space. And then a woman owns Playspace, and so at the coworking space. I would do pop up childcare and other plays bass. I would do. Pop-up coworking. And I actually like got a lot of publicity around it. There was like a lot of amazing trucks, and there's a lot of people. Who are interested? In the idea and I come, the Chicago Tribune wrote me and this other woman up on there. And, you know, I was on the front cover of the newspaper and one of my coworkers. Like urban architecture, firm came in like. Like I came into work and like they put the newspaper. On my. Desk like what the like? What do you do? So the man just kind of been. Doing all of. This in secret, and I think that was like the moment for me is like.
Nikki
Yeah, I need to be.
Akanksha
Done here, I need to like quit this architecture firm like this clearly. Isn't this is time? I'm past my time. Here. So yeah, the subways. Stopped working at the architecture for Mr. Like really kind of plowing through with the Co, working in childcare and for lots of reasons. Never on a blog. Posts on it. It's not a viable. Business. Model. Bigger is. Putting trying to put two business model two really hard profit margin business models together. Why would that not be successful? So yeah, it just it didn't. It didn't work. So what I blogged about doing that was, like so many of the amazing it was majority. Women. Who, you know mothers that came? In there were some. Fathers too, but it was majority mothers who came. In and I loved talking to. Them. A lot of them were freelancers. And business owners and. I loved talking to them about their work and so I started to do some like freelancing and consulting for those women, which was so much fun like very up my alley as far as that kind of like entrepreneurial. Mindset and oh great like you had this product looks like let's see how we can like get into the market. Let's see how we can sell it. But see like how? Fast. We can get your business to. Grow. When we need a. Pin of it. All of that. So I love that. I'm sciences, no. Yeah, they're like. No one looks. Like in the architecture framework, he tried to. Get them to listen. And like, no, it's like. OK, and now you basically turned that. Around to like high come listen to.
Nikki
Me yeah yeah it will and I think that.
Akanksha
Like yeah, it's just like. The difference? In studying. Personality. And buying. Stuff. Right and so like. People who. Are entrepreneurial like they're open to ideas? There are open to risk and in a way that when you're in a very thick industry, it's really hard to. Change. Your ways when you're like. We have this. Figured out now like. This is how it works like I've heard this with about the publishing industry, right? Like? Still very old. School. Still very hard to like get in you have. To go through this. Very. You know? Archaic process so yeah, so anyway. Yeah, it was like definitely I. I found my people right like I found the people who I could kind of talk to in A and, you know, I definitely had that like impostor syndrome of like well I'm not an entrepreneur. That's for like you know, Tech Bros that are like coming out of Google and starting up Airbnb or whatever.
Akanksha
Yeah, but then I just really feel like entrepreneurship in my opinion is like open to anyone. It's like you have an idea you're trying to put it into the market you're trying to sell it. You're an entrepreneur like you don't need permission from someone else. You don't need to go get an MBA like to me like there's no fighting with people like I'm like, oh I want to go into entrepreneurship. Let me get an MBA. It's like you wanna be cool like you. Like, do you want to have a business or you just like what's it? Like education like credentials like? So is that difference of like hey, I want to do something or I want the title of doing? Something. Right? Exactly.
Nikki
Yeah, and I can.
Akanksha
See. Like if you want to be a consultant for like McKinsey or Deloitte. Sure like go get an MBA. But like if you aren't to be an entrepreneur like. Just start a business or. Anything? Is there? Any? Business, you know? You will learn oh, the trips and falls. In there you'll get. Yeah, yeah, totally so. Yeah it was. Great and I was kind of found my niche of working with creative. Women entrepreneurs and I really loved that. I would do workshops. And. Hosted a couple of retreats. Which was so lovely, would do dinners and. It was just so much I had so much fun with it and I started to get pretty interested in the tech space of entrepreneurship and. And so like that at that point I had moved with my family to Australia and I'm so settled in Melbourne and was like really trying to figure out how to get an accelerator of sorts going focusing on women, entrepreneurs and. Uhm, that didn't really get off the ground. I found Australia to be kind of difficult to come into as an outsider I I found that people here really. It's like who you know and people don't make introductions for you. Unless you're like you went to their private high school with them. Or like I just found it to be very dumb. People were very suspicious of. Outsider. I think it's like even like, not even. Just for a business like which is kind of where the network like, it's important those kind of aspects of like a working. Life in Australia but. Even. Just like I'm not gonna come back I. Remember moving here. And. I've talked about this company down. There was just like. I was friendless. Yeah, how old were you? So I had just graduated. I just graduated at a college that was about 20. One parent is. Something around? On on. So yeah, that would have been. 2018 yeah, at the end of 2018 for. Like three years. Ago now I wouldn't move and it was a case of like hey folks. I'm just really next.
Nikki
Week bye. Yeah.
Akanksha
Because my family is here. So I was moving out like back home, essentially in a way. Like I grew up in Ireland. Something it's a whole. Scenario. But I moved most like. Ah. I don't know what to do, don't know anyone. Here. Like how do. You just find your people. Yeah, in a city that's 5 million people, which is more than the country of. Ireland. So when you come from like hey, you probably like through like a second or third degree connection. You probably know almost every person. In the country. Two like here's my little niche plays. I'm I'm north side of the. River and I'm in the eastern suburbs. That's all I know. Right, right, yeah? It's a big. It was so weird. And interesting, but I I. I I don't, yeah. I mean, I kind of settled. In I was kind of like this like I. Said a grad. Program so I had like that support in my. Little. Around, but I don't. Know how like that is a really interesting point that you brought up of. Like how do you find your place? Yeah, when you don't have like those. Kind of things. Some kind of structure in place to do it.
Nikki
Yeah, yeah, totally so do.
Akanksha
You do you? Do you feel like you made friends? OK, like? I mean I. Am not friends with them. Yeah, but I think a lot of it at. This guy for me it was. Literally just going to meetups. And. There's like a record like my friend or. A friend or. A clip my cousin and someone had been like. Go on to meet up and. Just. You'll find people into the same things as you in different places, yeah? And I went. To a lot of B dubs. And we just sort of super awkward when it's just you on your own. Yeah, you don't even know it's like. If you break someone with. You like you start talking to other people, but when you're on your own, it's actually super hard, really vulnerable. Would be like. Hi I want to. Join this little group of chat. Maybe? I won't, yeah. I'll be in a corner it's OK.
Nikki
Yeah, I feel like finding.
Akanksha
I've. Been to a lot of different groups and I feel like some more just like awesome and others are way awkward. It's really interesting. The different. Vibe. Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah. Which ones worked have worked for you, in which I mean, yeah. I mean the code. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Women who code is like I think, that was one of the first few. As a Donna Edwards was essentially someone who the Victoria team lead essentially and she like they show you the coolest boss I've ever had. That's so, chat like we still chat. We still cut jobs like one of my favorite people, but she basically she picked off with the code again in Melbourne so wasn't. Really. Going at that stage. It was kind of endorsement. She kicked it off. It was like, hey, I'm doing. This thing come join like. Will be there. I love you, why not like wait OK? And that's the hardness. Like oh, these are all these people who didn't like generically the same thing. It's like whatever like the actual work is probably different, but it's just such catlike supportive like open spaces safe. Just like you know. What? This is it. This is my place like. This. That works really. Well, and I mean it just spirals. Into what it has become today, and I think still to. This day, like our. Monthly meetings, even though they're virtually the only. Really, once I go shopping like ah, these are my people. Better I don't like, yes, OK. Yeah, I know it's awesome. And I think. I think a lot of myths like stopped the pandemic and I think it's nice to have, like a bit of consistency. I personally had. I cannot do like more online stuff like I just think so for this green fatigues. I think I. Tried to in the beginning since I can't be connected as I like to to connect like just let me go and and existential spiral and like you know cry you know. I think it's a start was like interesting 'cause I'm just like Oh my God I can go anywhere. Like globally, that's all. Open to man is cool. And then I'm like, no. This is too much choice. I don't want no I can't, yeah. It just became. I've been at my laptop from 8:00 AM and now it's 9:00 PM. Oh my God. This is ruining my life, yeah? Like maximum two meet up some month I think for. Me, I'm like. It's a good level. Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. Yeah for sure. Anyway, right that was a great little tangent. Yeah, it's hot in here. Oh, started to get accelerator's. Going, Oh yeah, like I was trying to get up off the ground and I just started telling or run into this like massive like distrust like massively people like Cory you type of a approaches like oh like to me it doesn't matter.
Nikki
Who I am.
Akanksha
I mean, I think it matters. To certain level who you're working with. Right, but it's like this is just an idea. And I don't. See anyone doing it in a good way, like there is. She. Starts, but there was a lot of like women coming out of that program who found it really problematic, and the amount of percentage that she starts asking for for the amount of money that they were giving with absurd. And yeah, there was just I thought that there was a massive need for it and I wanted to try to tackle it and. I just found to be more difficult than what I what I thought is reasonable and I. Also. Worked with an Angel investor firm that invests in women owned businesses for a little bit and that was fun and interesting and different ways, and I did some consulting for another accelerator program. That at ACMI X. Which was really cool and fun working with. Creatives who are want to you know who had like scalable products, which is really, really cool. But then I. Just started to I I worked, they call it in. EIR as. An entrepreneur in residence and at this time I'm not gonna say the name you. Could look at. It on my LinkedIn if you. If anyone really cares, but uhm, I started to like see some really problematic behavior of. Just. Kind of the tech industry like getting outta hand like. People in tech and investment that like didn't know what they were doing. And yeah, like not even like looking at entrepreneurs product before they gave them money. And even if they did look at their product, they wouldn't even know what they were looking at like if they were to ask for the code base, they would have no idea if it was just like. Copied and pasted JavaScript from a. You know whatever site online or if it was actually for their problem, you know so. Yeah. I. Started to get. Like, really disillusioned and you know, all entrepreneurs products were AI and machine learning this course, right? And. Yeah, the buzzword got him all, yeah. I have my. Site on Squarespace. For today. I you know, like it's an AI product, so I started realizing like wow, like. This is the problem. But I'm. Also. Proud of the problem. Like if I want to be in this space I'm I don't really have that I, even though I'm suspicious. And I know steps up. I know the jig is up. I know they're smoking mirrors, I can't point. To your code. Face and be like this isn't a high brow like. You know, yeah. It's like, well, this isn't a. Statement. And you're basically. Telling it what? To do. So. Please go. Away. So many times it's actually. Well, I really did I. Actually heard that from a lot of AI engineers that it's just like a bunch of conditionals, and that's like it's so like. I. Still. Can't like speak to AI, but I can. Speak to a. Codebase right like I can at least like I don't have the expertise. To speak. To AI and. Machine learning, but I had the expertise. It's I I can. I feel confident that if you gave me a code base I could get familiar enough with it to be able to tell you if it's working. If I. If I can run that as. If the tests are. ****. You know, like I feel like I have a bit of expertise at that point at this point. Where I can do a little? Bit of technical due diligence and I couldn't at the time and. So. Yeah, that's what. Initially kind of drew me in. Like two doing some self learning. But then as I started to do more self learning, I started to realize like. Wow. I really like this like I really like that. The technical like it either works or it doesn't, and there's truly. It's like a drug. It's like a dopamine hit, right? Like when something works, you're like. Oh my God, you laugh at this. Though for the podcast 'cause at the moment it isn't. Very. Inclusive, because it's just something you can listen to or what listen on YouTube kind of thing. And. So we're working on doing like a speech to text. So you can read it. Yeah, cool transfer if you want it. My God trying to get that code to where I'm like so me by the time this. Episode comes out, it'll. Be all done and everything 'cause I think I've got it done. Now yeah, cool. Like literally spending days. Of just like I. Want to bash my head into the? Door. And then that. 1. Minute. Of life that high of Oh my God, I got it. Is with hours. Of like torture, somehow. And I don't. Understand how that. Works, but it does. Oh my God, yeah it's like a buildup of like stress and frustration. And it, like the release is like it's like a an amazing amazing. But then like my problem is is that like I have the release for like 2 seconds and I feel so good and then I'm like back into the torture and like what's the next problem? But the guys that really is. Just like Oh my God. I got it. I can do it on that. Right, they thought little. Like self indulgent like. I I just got this I can keep going. And then it's. Just you try and keep going and these are things you don't know and you have to figure it out and you're back into the tool.
Nikki
Yeah.
Akanksha
I hate. It. But I feel like. The the winds along the way does kind of build up a comp it built up, not a confidence 'cause I think confidence in some ways is like bad. I feel like it's it's almost like builds up for Brazilians, right? Like it builds up a patient. For like, OK, I think it's. This is going to take 15 minutes. Let me. Just tell me I would tell you to take 3. Hours. Like that's probably. What you know you start. To kind of. Learn those things of like everything is going to take longer than what you think it is. Everyone make similar mistakes. You're going to make. Really like. Silly. Mistakes like spelling mistakes and that's going to be holding you. Up for an hour, you know like so. Yeah. Yeah, and I just. I also like remember before I went into tech hearing people be. Like you're always learning. You're always have to like. There's a new technology. That's going to come. Out, but you have to, like, you know, get familiar with and. I remember thinking like that's so daunting like. That sounds terrible to me. Like that does not sound like interesting. And then I realized. Like I don't know something switched. For me, I was like why wouldn't I want? To be in in an. Industry that's constantly. There's something I can always learn or something I can always grow. There's there's always opportunities like there's millions of opportunities in tech. And that's just like. I'm like. Souls. You know, I like. So I like, love it. I'm so thrilled to be. Here and I. And I think. That this is especially true for women, but I have a lot of people because of my. Background I had a lot of. People. Feel like you have you considered. Product management and have you considered being a? BA and I don't wanna go in the middle seemed Arab I don't but it's like I no no I want to be really really technical like I am committed. I am here and determines like I wanna be. Super super technical. I do not want to be a. Product manager thank you very. Much. But I think it's like really easy for. People 'cause like. For example, I just joined a new team and I started. To see some things some like. Habit building that's like racking up code debt and so I like, wrote up some documentation of like hey maybe. We can like. Start doing this like. Architectural.
Nikki
Design review and like.
Akanksha
Get some consistency and I think that when. You do that. Kind of work. People start to kind of peg you. As a be a you know. Technical. Person yeah yeah so I. Thought. Yeah, I feel like it's like. I'm in, I'm in an interesting position now. Because I'm having to. Be really vigilant about what I'm. Choosing to do how I'm choosing to spend my time. And things that I feel like it's just like being a good. Team member like having an onboarding doc about our meetings. Right and what to? Expect from the meetings and how they fit into agile practices and how our team has evolved them. And is this a team? Is this a meeting to ask questions or is it not a meeting? Ask questions you know, like something I wish I would have had when I came on like I did spend oh go ahead. No, I mean it's interesting. Specially in tag and I noticed. This is where.
Akanksha
If. We start like I mean. For some reason, it's like if you keep. Your head down and you just code. You are a. Technical. Person the minute you like, lift your head. Up being like. Hey, this could be better. Yeah, in general, which would make my code?
Nikki
But yeah.
Akanksha
Saying no, you're not. Technical anymore you can do the rest. Of it, and you're like, excuse you?
Nikki
Yes. Yes. Totally. Yes, it's really. Interesting because to me that's like not being a technical person, that's. Being a yes. Person that's just like not having critical. Thinking. Skills, you're just. Trying. To you're not thinking about the product, you're just thinking about. Getting the test to pass or whatever. Like an example of this is. We have this list that is called bad words. And on the list of bad words. Which you would. Think is like the F word right on the list of bad words. There's like abortion, and there's Chinese and there. You've got like Muslim and I'm like why. Is this was called bad excuse? Me. Exactly we it. There's like there's like a Chinese engineer on our team and I'm like why are we? Why do we have this list called bad words when like abortions out a bad word? Chinese isn't a bad. Word like what are we doing? And they're like, Oh well, this is. It's like if it's like. These are words that, if they're paired together, it's we're wanting to flag. Them. It's like, OK, that's a very different right. Like this means to be called like potential words that are potentially used for abuse, right? Like abusive behavior, words that we want to flag like words to flag. Potential. Words like there's so many different naming. Conventions. And I feel like it's. That kind of thinking. More like an engineer is just like. Oh, let's just call it. Bad. Words. And move along with our day. And I just like I. Can't I can't? I can't I can't. I can't do. That right? Like that's not. I cannot move along with my day like that needs to be solved, right? Then, and I think that like when. People are really. Sometimes when people and that's not like all technical people, but I just think that when you're just thinking about a technical solution, you don't think about the product at hand. You don't think about the domain, you don't think about like what's the kind of environment we want to create. What's the kind of thinking we want to foster? You just kind of run into problems, so anyway.
Akanksha
Yeah, I mean this is like these are the things that essentially lead into. Those buyers that. Like I mean, I'm talking from an AI POV. But like when? You look at. Models that have problems or any of that. Kind of stuff. This is where it comes from because everyone. 's been doing. That a little. Bit but not. Seeing how it all works. Together like haha no, please stop, you're ruining lives by doing this.
Nikki
Yeah, yeah, totally right. And then someone else is going to come down the road pickup outlets. That says bad words and they're like, oh, this is this is the F word like let's erase. What do you like just? Totally erase all these words from our codebase or whatever and it's like so we're gonna racing like Chinese people from our code. Base or with FedEx in acting like.
Akanksha
But that's interesting. That is exactly dumb danger. But love. So. So you ended.
Nikki
Up going into a boot camp because you start yourself. Yes, wanted to start pick pointing.
Akanksha
No. No, that's perfect. So you work. Basically you're like OK. Well, I don't understand this, but I know this is not what it says. It is let me figure it. Out, so is that what led? To the boot camp, he says.
Nikki
Yeah, yeah. So I was like. Working with. An accelerator working with some startups. Being little bit stuff about like the behavior that was. Happening in the. Industry getting pretty disillusioned. What was happening as well and then just wanting to have those hard skills. So yeah, I went to. Boot. Camp starting October 2019. I finished that in December 2019. That's when you and I met and then yeah, sort of interviewing a ton of places and actually from women who code. I went to one of the meetups. It was at Vanguard. I really like I'm I'm. Invested. With. Vanguard I really. Believe in their product. I met with some engineers. The pandemic. Hit. In like March in Australia and I was talking to two different companies. Like really seriously one was Vanguard, another one was Envato and then guard was like cool. We are like a financially stable business model so. We continue on with our hiring. We're not laying anyone off. Actually, we're going to continue. Hired 'cause. We've been through this. Before. And. Yeah, they're just a pretty great company that way. And. So they hired me. Envato is like you are our preferred candidate but we. You know there's. A lot of. Unknowns, you know? So a lot of companies were just like we've gotta like circular wagon. Then some people thought as opportunistic where they were laying a ton of people off. But it's like, see, I love see the like carb of people who made off software engineers and other trying to hire them back and they have to hire them back for like 40% for a minute. So the market.
Akanksha
Is bizarre, but like it's it's it's such an interesting. And also sorry I'm like. Actually shocked at the fact that. You've pivoted and tried to get a job, but also in another pandemic. Like the other one is the financial. Exactly. At this bizarre thank.
Nikki
You I like bless your heart for like remembering the trauma that I have. Yes. So I like went through this thing. I was like it was like it was so much that like Oh my gosh I eat just this is my life like I will I'm trying to like upscale and then I just go into recessions. And this time of recession pandemic, like it was so triggering to me of like this is I I'm. Just. My career is set back again yet again when I'm trying to like get things up and running so. Yes, but you know, looking back, it was like the best thing I could have done. It was the most amazing timing given. What are the crunch that I was under? It was like I couldn't. If I would. Have stayed in the startup space like OH God, shoot me like it would have been so so hard and I'm so so lucky honestly that like the timing worked out the way that it did. So yeah it started at Vanguard. Works there for five months. Vanguard wasn't really. In a place they too like a mentor, juniors at my level like. How? Green I was. And Envato came along and said, like hey, we're actually starting up our apprentice program again. Are you interested? You know you were a preferred candidate past we haven't reached out to anyone else. We aren't just. You know you're working, but it was like. Yeah, like I yes. Please, so just because The Apprentice program is just so kind of a very. Very unique, like there's no other program in Australia that's like it was how. Come. How? Immersive, it is. It's a 9 month. Program. You do like kind of said condiments at the condiments so common.
Akanksha
But condominium. 'cause I'm like.
Nikki
Jackson Monster and you know. In different teams. So we went to like six different teams and doing lots of different stuff. Working with data, working with front down were coming back and lots of different technologies we touched, you know, React, Python And Ruby. Elixir up. Yeah it was great so. Yeah, I just finished that up. In June, and then joined a team. UM? And. So yeah, that's where this where I am. I'm at, but I'm actually moving back to America, uh, I now in October. Enough. I know, I know. I know I know, so it's a bit. It's just like a. Crazy time, you know our our paths uncovered or prize. Mr. Cody, so yeah. Like we my partner and I were here on his B says so he got sponsored through his company and I come it was a dependent on his visa and his company is just like really terrible. Really toxic and just like moving around some things going into a direction he's not interested in going in so we're just needing to like go back to America's. Just been sensually. So like easiest thing to do, right? Now.
Akanksha
Like I mean, I think it's especially with these kind of conversations. I think it's important merely to point out the fact that like, yeah, OK. People make decisions. On jobs like, not every decision on a job is based on like oh, this is a company. I want to work for or. This is how much I. Get paid. Or this is a? Work I want to do like. A lot of decisions are made. Based on circumstances that are completely. Unrelated to technology.
Nikki
Or the work you're doing. Like
Akanksha
so many other parts of life that people just don't care about, especially in tiger like. You can code that is all you need. Like no more. Like there is a person. With a life behind.
Nikki
Yeah totally totally yeah for sure. So yeah, envato's been really great like they were in talks right now with potentially like moving me to America and me. Still even potentially. Working with my same team. And trying to work around time. Zones and I love that. But it's nothing is finalized. It's fairly like early days, so you know then I may be like jobless and a couple months searching for another job in America.
Akanksha
That is the path and covered, and we'll probably be back again with like. I feel we should, I should. Go back and be like, hey. What have you done? In like a little bit of time, since like every.
Nikki
Other. Yeah.
Akanksha
Only like, well, uncover. More.
Nikki
Well for sure. And I'm like very like in, just like you know, Lyndon Gwennie obviously like those. Are you know women that I like really admire and I'm very curious, you know, to see what their. Futures or like. So I'm definitely listen to those podcasts. Upsets
Akanksha
no OK so. We don't know what's gonna happen next. Biopsy love the trajectory of what come to here, like I think it's interesting especially to me. I think yes, all the recessions and pandemics for triggering. But throughout the whole thing, like it's been kind of the same passion. Of like well. This doesn't make sense, let me figure. It out, or there's a better way of doing. This like whether that was the child. Care and the coworking. Space. Is like.
Nikki
There is a better. Way of surely.
Akanksha
Like figuring out the code like there's a better way. Yeah. And I like, I think that's a great kind of like thing to take. Away like I mean. Yes, your skills can be. Whatever, but I like I like that passion. Of like well. That's my passion. I'll figure out something along with.
Nikki
Me yeah totally. Yeah for sure. Yeah I like like looking at the world that way, yeah.
Akanksha
Well, thank you so much for your time today Nikki. I very much appreciate it. It's. Been a great. Chance.
Nikki
Yeah.
Akanksha
She's like I. Didn't even know you had a background. With.
Nikki
Architectural.
Akanksha
Like I love these things so much. 'cause I mean, these are things usually come up in. Conversation unless it's like quite specific. To yeah. So thank you for sharing.
Nikki
Yeah, well do you mind if I ask you so you're? I know that you did data science so you're doing. AI and data science now. How's it going?
Akanksha
It's an interesting world, I think. I mean, I was thinking about I think he said something despite the same thing where I think I. Remember in college? Thinking I don't, I wanted to be a doctor, but then I was like, oh, actually, that's. Just exams for the rest of your life. Can you tell us you know? The. Newmed.com I think they're happy with. Clients where I was like you. Have to pass more. Exams after college. So thank you. I mean, I actually. Didn't like the work that they were doing either. There was more to it than just exams this week, yeah? Stickel about it but. Uhm? I think it's interesting. That I was like in that mindset of like. No, I don't wanna keep doing. Exams. But you look at AI and it's. Bullets. Shift. Of like I am not required. To know this, but it's of an interest and I think it's cool the changes that are coming that I get to keep up with. The speech to text. Like model that I builds and stuff. And I'm like I ate. I could have done that two years ago 'cause. God I had not. That do not have the skills to do that to. Yourself, but the technology that. Exists. Now. For me to be able to. Just use the cloud service. Not have a really bulky machine to go. Do it and all these other aspects I didn't. Really, I mean they. Existed, but they weren't as accessible.
Nikki
But yeah.
Akanksha
So it's an. Interesting path I think. Yeah, I just find. Some cool things and I started messing.
Nikki
Around. Yeah. This. Is so cool. You know it's really interesting with my entrepreneurial. Path. Like if I were to. Meet, you might have met you like. Three years ago I'd be like, well, let's like package up this like code that you just wrote like. If you didn't find. Anything else out there and you? Just wrote it your own because. You saw a. Need. For it like I'd, I'd be like, well, let's sell it and now. And now I'm like. Yeah, he just like what you just want to like. Make the product for yourself like you just feel like life is cold because you're interested in writing the code. It fits your need. Like I'm I'm. Now more in that. Mindset. Of like yeah, I'm not. Really interested in like making a. Buck off of like the. Code that I'm. Writing, or just like wanna write it 'cause? It's interesting to me. To like, write what I want to write and build what I wanna build.
Akanksha
Exactly. And I mean. Actually sorry. As we say, there's like, hey, someone's listening and they need a speech to text thing to. Do and work. Reach out because it will help me support the. Podcast. So maybe we do want to make a.
Nikki
Phone no, that's really cool like me. I. Honestly. Like I think if there's. Really not a product because I'm assuming that you try to find one, right?
Akanksha
And. Yes and no. I think anything that I. Did it be like? Some. Amount of dollars per minute. Of transcription and most of the episodes. From there about 45 minutes.
Nikki
Oh
Akanksha
yeah, it's like someone is doing this kind of very. Much as an interest and just underside. Like and. I've already got enough expenses on this thing. To be doing to be. Having this kind of. Stuff we're like, surely I can just do this.
Nikki
Well, that's a natural. Maybe you could. Even like OK. Here I am like being an entrepreneur.
Akanksha
I love it so. Much. I think I'll just guess there's definite people. Camping, I'm like I'm like. It's a good start, but we'll. Leave that off. There and we'll be back again in two weeks time with another episode, until then take care of yourselves and we'll see you soon.
